Comments for Young WRs Struggling at http://18to88.com , comment 1 to 39 out of 20 comments http://18to88.com Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:58:16 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://18to88.com/2009-archives/september/young-wrs-struggling.html#comment-1444 You are judging them based on one game how is that any better? They both played pretty well on Sunday, and I'm thrilled about it, but don't go overboard. Gonzo is in no danger. Garcon has made some big plays, but his catch rate is just 54% (which is horrible). He has 5 penalties in 3 games. He has a LONG way to go. Collie has actually been bad this year. His catch rate is at 50% (which is worse than horrible). On top of that, his DVOA (which measures value per play) is at -10.2%. That means he's about 10% worse than an average wide receiver. Gonzo's numbers from last year: +26.2% and a catch rate of 72%. The young guys still have a LONG way to go. Please get some facts before you come in here saying crazy stuff. - DZ Wed, 30 Sep 2009 08:05:30 +0100 http://18to88.com/2009-archives/september/young-wrs-struggling.html#comment-1441 wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong you were. strugglin wide receivers? biggest mistake you ever made. you judged them on 2 games. you assumed and should of known that it would come back and bite you on the ass. Gonzales better watch out or his job wont be there when he gets back. - tncoltsfan Wed, 30 Sep 2009 07:17:00 +0100 http://18to88.com/2009-archives/september/young-wrs-struggling.html#comment-1217 Negative says: Collie and Garcon Suck! The Colts are screwed! Truthful says: Collie and Garcon are really talented. They are coming along nicely, but they are NOT an adequate replacement for AG, and without him we will struggle against a good defense. Merr is right, C/G are on an expected curve. And by that standard they are doing well. By the standard of "can this team beat a good defense where they are right now", I think the answer is no. Listen, the Colts are 2-0. I'm as pleased as anyone, but don't expect me to do backflips just because they won two games by a total of 6 points against two of the ten worst teams in football. This team has Super Bowl aspirations, but there are things that HAVE to happen. Ignoring them, pretending they don't exist, or just hoping Peyton will bail everyone out doesn't make them go away. I won't be happy until I see Indy playing at an October 2007 level. That's elite on both sides of the ball and able to beat any team. When we are back to playing at that level on both sides of the ball, I'll shoot sunshine rays out my arse. There are lots of sites that do happy. We do true. This team isn't where it needs to be. The good news is that I think it can still get there. But, I'm not going to stop pointing out that they aren't there yet. - DZ Fri, 25 Sep 2009 06:11:15 +0100 http://18to88.com/2009-archives/september/young-wrs-struggling.html#comment-1215 TNCOLTSFAN: I don't see this site as negative. It's his opinion. This is all subjective which means it's fairly likely that there will be many of us in disagreement. I, for one, believe Garcon and Collie are progressing nicely along an EXPECTED curve of development. Also, being open in the NFL is very difficult to perceive through the lens of network footage; therefore, I don't put much stock in whether or not I perceive someone is "blanketed" or not. I like this blog because it challenges a lot of those with their heads in the sand. To assume a team is perfect is silly. It's much more fun to discuss where we can improve, or if we're improving, etc. - Merr Fri, 25 Sep 2009 05:52:46 +0100 http://18to88.com/2009-archives/september/young-wrs-struggling.html#comment-1214 "True fans stick with the team no matter and hurt when they are let down and dont try to make up excuses just to make them feel better." You're talking to guys who went to every home game of back to back 3-13 seasons. Do we like saying 'I told you so'? Of course. But we believe in reasons for losing, not excuses. - DemondSanders Fri, 25 Sep 2009 05:21:15 +0100 http://18to88.com/2009-archives/september/young-wrs-struggling.html#comment-1213 tncoltsfan, brady advantage of the one best defences around at the time, and he had a solid set of wr's plus one of the better coaches going, and the refs on his side when his db's commited gbh, (dont know what that is called in the us, argentina, gbh = grevious bodily harm.) stokely, pollard, fletcher, moorehead, utecht, haddad, and walters havent really done a thing since leaving the colts. stokley nhad the "immaculate deflection" in week 1 and that has been it. and just to illustrate dz's point about the broncos, i dont think they even made the extra point. which is how fluky thry are. i dont even like them any more, (i liked them because they used to beat new england) - Ross C Fri, 25 Sep 2009 05:09:33 +0100 http://18to88.com/2009-archives/september/young-wrs-struggling.html#comment-1212 Tell it like it is? Because all of sudden you are a football expert better yet the Nostrodamus of the NFL since you got one game right that half the US knew what the outcome was going to be. People like you make me sick you are a fan but yet instead of looking at the positives of the team you choose to look at the negatives that way your feelings are hurt when they dont perform the way they are supposed to be. Lesson here my friend is that the NFL is full of let downs and you get over it and look forward to next season. People like you after a loss are like "I told you so" just to feel good about something. True fans stick with the team no matter and hurt when they are let down and dont try to make up excuses just to make them feel better. Its football. Kravitz was right.... I come here for news and updates about the team since I live in TN and always come across negativity. - TNCOLTSFAN Fri, 25 Sep 2009 05:09:14 +0100 http://18to88.com/2009-archives/september/young-wrs-struggling.html#comment-1211 Fletcher, Moorehead, Utech, Haddad, Walters, Ishmail, Green, Pathon, ect... Weren't any good WITH the Colts. Stokely has been ok since he left and Pollard was old by the time he was gone. Brady didn't do jack with less than stellar receivers...his defenses did. If you want Manning to put up 3500 yard, 88 rating seasons, by all means, be thrilled with what we have. I'll be thrilled with it too if it comes with the 2003-2004 Pats defense. - DZ Fri, 25 Sep 2009 04:59:07 +0100 http://18to88.com/2009-archives/september/young-wrs-struggling.html#comment-1210 How is it absurd? Is it because stokley, pollard, fletcher, moorehead, utecht, haddad, and walters have all had excellent careers after leaving the Colts. The fact is what Tom Brady did with less than stellar receivers Peyton could do too. - TNCOLTSFAN Fri, 25 Sep 2009 04:54:48 +0100 http://18to88.com/2009-archives/september/young-wrs-struggling.html#comment-1209 Listen man, if you want smiles and hugs, go somewhere else. We tell it like is. Last year, the Colts had 8 straight games, and I said they would lose in San Diego because they couldn't stop the TE without Brackett and they couldn't run the ball in fourth quarter. I predicted them to lose a heartbreaking game at the end... All of that happened. I freaking love this team, but that doesn't mean I have to be all happy just because they won. The goal is a Super Bowl, and there are things the team has to do to get there. If they lose and play well, we say so. If they win and play bad in some area, we say so. We tell the truth. I never said the Colts suck. But there are things that worry me. Peyton Manning covers a multitude of sins, especially against bad teams, but come playoff time, we can't just rely on him. Why? Because he's played flipping great in the last three playoff losses, but the TEAM wasn't good enough. He was never better than against SD two years ago, but the entire team (WRs, Line, RBs, Defense) let him down. This blog is the place you go to find the whole truth, ugly or not. If you want people to whine about not being ranked high enough in power rankings, or ripping ESPN for questioning us...go somewhere else. I rip analysts who question the Colts because of "the coaching transition". I don't rip analysts who say, "this team needs to get better in certain areas" FYI: Before Wayne came of age in 2003, the Colts had a parade of awful WRs. They also never won a playoff game. You need more than one guy, even with Peyton Manning as QB. - DZ Fri, 25 Sep 2009 04:44:58 +0100 http://18to88.com/2009-archives/september/young-wrs-struggling.html#comment-1208 "No matter what receivers are out there on the field as long as Peyton is behind center those receivers are good and will be good." That's an absurd statement. - DemondSanders Fri, 25 Sep 2009 04:42:22 +0100 http://18to88.com/2009-archives/september/young-wrs-struggling.html#comment-1207 Seriously just about every blog on this website is something negative about the Colts. Second game of the season and all of sudden the Colts receivers are struggling? Take away that Garcon catch and we lose the game. Yeah they are struggling... NOT. Listen if all you have to say about the Colts is negative then dont say anything. Im beginning to think that this website is an attempt by a patriots fan to mole its way into the Colts fan base and lead people to believe that suddenly the Colts suck. The Colts have overcame injuries and horrible defenses to win games. No matter what receivers are out there on the field as long as Peyton is behind center those receivers are good and will be good. - TNCOLTSFAN Fri, 25 Sep 2009 04:35:25 +0100 http://18to88.com/2009-archives/september/young-wrs-struggling.html#comment-1195 @Demond You're right. My bad. I guess I'm just used to saying that lately (I'm a ND fan, too, and with Floyd out...I'm trying to stay optimistic). But yeah, they are talented, but not deep. Otherwise Baskett probably would not be on the team. I may be overexcited about Garcon's potential, but he may have star quality. I hadn't seen open field speed like that from any of our WRs in a long time. - npb1985 Thu, 24 Sep 2009 14:48:27 +0100 http://18to88.com/2009-archives/september/young-wrs-struggling.html#comment-1186 @ Mad Dog Their stats are less than "not gaudy", they are virtually non existent. I'm not criticizing the players. I don't blame them for the lack of production. I'm just saying the team has a serious problem and any kind of competant defense will exploit them because of it. My judgment was not harsh at all. The Colts need more out of the 2 and 3 WRs than 7 catches, 91 yards in two games. If this is the kind of production we are to expect out of them (and it is!), we should be worried. - DZ Thu, 24 Sep 2009 09:11:38 +0100 http://18to88.com/2009-archives/september/young-wrs-struggling.html#comment-1185 I think I can say for a fact that both Collie and Garcon are going to have better careers than Moorehead and Thorpe. Not like that is saying much though. Ross - It's way to early to even mention Gonzo coming back. If they are saying up to 8 weeks,it will probably be everybit of that. We might start asking questions after its been 6 weeks. Does anyone have thoughts on when Big Shot Bob is coming back? I had Week 3 scheduled all along as when we would really need him. I don't think we took h im off the PUP because we were worried about Seattle at home in week 4. He could be big against Tennesse, but week 6 is a bye. If he isn't coming back now, then when??? - Nickaveli Thu, 24 Sep 2009 09:06:08 +0100 http://18to88.com/2009-archives/september/young-wrs-struggling.html#comment-1183 also can i point out, that in miami game, we had the ball for fifteen minutes, im fairly sure that with more time, that garcon and collie would of caught more balls, remember reggie wayne didnt produce until yar three guys, gonzo on ly caught a handiful of balls in his first two games, and nmone againsts the saints. point is most stats from this game i am going to ignore other than top, and the score quite frankly, if you only have the ball foir 15 minutes, the chances of having a poor game stat wise is increased by some %. it is a bit hard to look at this game and say things like garcon and collie only had three balls threw their way. tbh you wouldn't blame peyton for throwin g it to reggie and dallas, i trust that wr/te to qb partnership. what i do want to take from this game, is not the stats side of things, but what i am now going to call the fundamental side of things, (blocking, breaking blocks, keeping 18 upright, how bad is charlie johnson, so a few questions, 1. how bad was charlie johnson this past week at blocking? 2. whom is playing lt, and how well are they playing. 3. how tired did the defence get through the constant running, this is surely gotta to be one of 18 things to look out for, its my #1 this week. 4. how did the rb look running, did they have (proverbial) time to analyse where the play is meant to go, did they have to readjust, is the line getting push off the snap or is the opposite happening. another point i have just thought. due to being off the field of 45 minutes monday, surely peyton is going to want to hit more shorter stuff come sunday, i mean manning is going to want to keep warner off the field, but if arizona can get their running game going, and its not hard to spread the field with those wr. so dz, look for collie and garcon to get more balls thrown their way. any news on gonzo by the way. - Ross C Thu, 24 Sep 2009 07:21:34 +0100 http://18to88.com/2009-archives/september/young-wrs-struggling.html#comment-1180 You do realize don't you that when Polian said they had good games, he wasn't solely talking about stats? There are other things receivers do that are important: run defenders out of areas and block(Collie had a couple nice ones Monday, including one on Garcon's TD) are two that come immediately to mind. Seriously, this is way to early in the season to make a harsh judgement like this. They are both rookies(I know Garcon was on the team last year, but his playing time at WR still basically makes him a rookie in learning the position while playing at full speed) and with the possible limited number of possessions the offense may have this year their stats may not be gaudy, but that doesn't mean they haven't played well. - MadDog Thu, 24 Sep 2009 06:48:02 +0100 http://18to88.com/2009-archives/september/young-wrs-struggling.html#comment-1178 Great point about Garcon. He was around last year, so I could buy the fact that in a few weeks he could be getting four catches a game. We'll have to wait until the Seattle game and we can get some reports from the Luke about how open he is getting or not to know for sure. - DZ Thu, 24 Sep 2009 05:15:50 +0100 http://18to88.com/2009-archives/september/young-wrs-struggling.html#comment-1177 Peyton just doesnt' trust them in the 'clutch' yet. He did throw to them and yes, with the game on the line, but was obvious for most accounts that he was looking for Wayne and Clark when it was a 'must' have play. This will probably remain... but as they get more pracrice, espect to see him throw to them more. The Colts O is based on timing, disipline and repetiion. You have to be in the right place at the right time. In 2007, it took time when harrison was unavailable to get used to Gonzonlas and the colts struggled when they shouldn't(like agaist KC). We were 9-0, played the Patriots, and got some big injuries. The following week we had to play San Diego on the road without Harrison, Clark and Gonzolas! He was obviously off that game, his new recievers (Thorp and Moorehead) were obviously not in sync. So much of the offense is timing, he was throwing the ball where they SHOULD have been and they weren't. As a result, he was picked off 6 times that game! The irony was that we still should have won that game if not for a late missed chip shot field goal. Likewise, when Peyton missed pre-season last year, the timing was off, peyton was recovering, and it took weeks before He got back in synch with his players. Give Him a few weeks and by week 8, I think you'll be seeing more from Garcon. Now... Collie doesn't look very fluid. He's a possesion reciever at best. He may still surpise me but he is not another Stokely, and not even a Clark. - Tom123 Thu, 24 Sep 2009 05:11:05 +0100 http://18to88.com/2009-archives/september/young-wrs-struggling.html#comment-1176 @npb... it takes years, not weeks for young receivers to make it in the NFL. I hope you are right, but it's not likely. Garcon was not a hair away from a TD. He was blanketed in single coverage, which then paid off later on the screen. Ultimately, you are right. This can be a top 10 offense without Gonzo. A good, even explosive at times offense, and when Manning is in the zone there are few better. But to be a consistently elite, top 5, top 3 O, you need more than two reliable targets. When you start seeing Collie and Garcon with 4 and 5 catches a game instead of 1 or 2, and you see those catches take place more than a yard or two off the line, then you'll know they've made it. They'll get there eventually. I love both players long term. I'm just realistic about where they are right now and what that means for the offense. - DZ Thu, 24 Sep 2009 05:00:44 +0100